“The Bearded Biomed” (aka: Chace Torres) sits down with 24×7’s chief editor Keri Stephens, along with associate editor Andy Lundin, to discuss ways HTM leaders can retain top talent in the industry and current recruitment trends professionals are witnessing.

They also discussed issues currently being felt in the industry, such as those related to salary, staffing, the rise in retirements in tandem with the lack of new recruits, and the overall impact COVID has had on HTM.

Podcast Transcript

Keri Stephens:
Hi, welcome to the MEDQOR Podcast Network. This is Keri Stephens, the chief editor of 24×7. Thank you for joining me for this podcast episode. I’m so excited to have Chace Torres, AKA the bearded biomed, as well as 24×7’s associate editor, Andy Lundin here today with me to discuss how to retain top talent in the HTM industry. It’s a topic Andy is currently writing about as he finishes the September-October cover story for 24×7 about the issue and we really wanted to get more in-depth about it and just get him some more behind-the-scenes information. Chace, Andy, thank you for joining me today.

Chace Torres:
Yeah, glad to be here as always.

Andy Lundin:
Yeah, so Chace, thank you so much for, yeah, talking with me tomorrow this morning. I’m obviously pretty fresh to the industry, still kind of getting a feel for everything, but I’ve been talking to a lot of professionals, and it’s been great. I’ve learned so much just in the last few weeks, especially for this story, just talking of folks in the industry, and I’m really excited to pick your brain this morning and get into even deeper into some of the nitty-gritty that we can and whatever else comes forward.

Andy Lundin:
So, yeah, I just wanted to get started. I guess to start, I was curious about these personal shortages. Obviously, they’ve been ongoing in the HTM space for a while now, but is it worse than it’s ever been now? If so, how much of it is due to the pandemic? I was actually speaking with some other folks in previous interviews and they were saying, I think one gentleman mentioned that 2019 was a particularly bad year, but I imagine that suddenly just skyrocketed into 2020, into 2021.

Chace Torres:
As with anything in the medical infrastructure, it is not a simple one-on-one answer. There’s always a slew of different things that are going to cause the same end result. The pandemic was, I like to think of it as almost a fuel source for the current predicament. It was, in fact, a very highly contributing factor with staffing, not just in the biomed space, in every space. A lot of places either had COVID restrictions to the point to where certain services cannot go into medical facilities to do the job. Others did not have the work or the staffing because either through layoffs or moving. There was a lot of tangents that all filled from the COVID space.

Chace Torres:
I think where it stands right now is like I alluded to a minute ago is with COVID creating the preliminary staffing shortage, it’s kind of expedited right now. I know several hospitals, at least in my area, and I’ve spoken to several others that they can’t find willing applicants. They can’t even find people that are applying and they have multiple positions open. There obviously is a shortage of incoming blood into the field, so when you mix the layoffs, the slowing of, we’ve had retirements…

Chace Torres:
That’s another thing, too, is another colleague of mine alluded to COVID presented an opportunity almost for people that were on the fence of retiring to go ahead and retire and we’re already seeing that within probably the next five to 10 years at minimum, there’s going to be a hell of a lot more people leaving the workforce because they’ve been in it so long, it’s their time, and regardless of not of us having the bodies to fill their positions, it’s going to happen. Like I’m saying, it’s a kind of conglomerate of different issues that are all funneling into the same thing, which we are experiencing now, which is we have so many job openings, but we also have so many bodies supposedly to fill them, but they’re not getting filled, so I think there’s a lot of different issues that are all going to the same talking point there.

Keri Stephens:
Yeah, and how much do you think salary plays a role in this? I mean, as 24×7, we are the collectors of all the salary data, but how much do you think is salary-related? When you hear industry professionals talk about it, how much of it’s salary? How often is salary brought up in regards to retention? Is it the biggest roadblock to addressing the current state of the issue? If they made salaries higher, would that solve the problem?

Chace Torres:
Well, I know when you submitted the HTM salary survey from last year, we’ve talked about this quite a lot, but salary does play a factor in what people decide to work for. It’s not something that I think a lot of people bring up in the workspace, which I’ve heard from companies that they’ve told their employees, “Don’t discuss your wages with each other,” even though it’s completely legal and encouraged, that way you know you’re all getting fair pay. I think also a part of the labor shortages is certain sites, certain companies, certain manufacturers, they’re not getting the able bodies coming in by one from what they’re offering for that job, because why would I go work here when I can go here for a one to $2 raise maybe per hour? Which our field is experiencing right now.

Chace Torres:
I mean, our field’s very much known for being… I don’t want to say there’s not a sense of loyalty, it’s more of, if there is more opportunity through training, through growth opportunity within that company, or a one to $2 raise, this is where the salary and all that comes in and factors together, which plays again with the staffing shortage, and very much so, salary plays a critical role in what you’re going to get from your biomeds.

Keri Stephens:
For sure, yeah. We’ve seen it, too. People want more money, and that’s such a big retention tool, but I also know in past salary stories we’ve done, and even in 2021’s, people really talk about, too, the other perks of the job, like benefits. It’s not just strictly dollars, it can be the full package, too.

Chace Torres:
I mean, the thing that makes it feel so interesting is there’s so many different sectors of where biomeds can work at and you’re going to get different experiences and different benefits from each of them. Some might have really good wages, but you’re also probably going to experience more burnout just because of the workload.

Chace Torres:
I mean, even OEMs are struggling to find able candidates coming in and filling in those tech one/tech two positions because again, a lot of the leadership roles are reserved for tech three and they don’t need a lot of those, so a lot of the newer graduates coming out of the CBET School, maybe the military reserves, or retirees from the military, they’re looking to fill these slots for in-house positions, ISO companies, and some may offer bonuses, whereas many may not. Some might have a 401(k) plan to where they match what you put in. Some might have health, dental, et cetera. Some might reimburse you for education up to a certain amount, but you’re not going to see the same thing everywhere. That’s why a lot of the biomeds are moving here and there because they’re going to go, that’s going to benefit them the best, and rightly so, we’re a very niche field, there’s not that many of us, so competition is always high within the biomed field.

Keri Stephens:
Yeah. I mean, for sure, people can really choose where they want to go, I mean, which means employers have to really be smart and make a lot of good strategies to retain these people because if not, they’re going to go to the next facility. Have you personally been involved in any initiatives that have helped forward progress in this space? Do you have any peers that you’ve worked with who’ve been a positive force to address employee attention?

Chace Torres:
So, first thing, which tailoring us back to the salary, is everybody needs to fill out the HTM salary survey annually.

Keri Stephens:
Yes.

Chace Torres:
That way, we know where the field currently lays. I think the more participation we have in that endeavor, it’s just going to give biomeds and also biomed directors and managers the tools to find good paying jobs within the areas they want to go to, and then also it’s a recruiting tool, so I think we’ve mostly tailored your survey for the applicant, for the biomed, the tech, but I think we could also push it towards the manager because you can see what your average is within your region, within your area, and then tailor your pay budget for your department to either meet or exceed that and that’s going to help you recruiting efforts.

Keri Stephens:
I love that point. Yes, definitely.

Chace Torres:
Same thing as well with AAMI, they do their demographic surveys. I know we just had the AAMI Exchange, which everybody got to meet everyone and voice their concerns about certain things within the field. I did participate in the Gator Tank and one of the initiatives I want to really push is getting biomeds all over the world to come into the US because the H-1B visa system is a good tool that I think we could really tap into to get new blood into the field because out of all the emails I get, one of the most consistent ones is where I get messages from all over the world asking, “Hey, how do I become a biomedder? Hey, I’m doing this already, but how do I come work in the US to do this?”

Chace Torres:
Another thing, too, is just talking about it. If any movement in general is going to stem from having those conversations, either with your current peers or having them with the C-suite because a lot of the budgetary constraints and staffing constraints that biomeds feel day in and day out within the hospital is very much tied to what they’re allowed to do with the leash they’re given from the C-suite.

Chace Torres:
I think this also ties into is building the community because we have Discords, we have Facebook groups, we have all the different podcasts and shows we have going on now, and these allow us to actively discuss the issues we currently feel, which is salary, staffing, incoming new blood into the field, retirements. I think the biggest thing that I could say that I’ve pushed is just building that conversation and building that community for everybody to discuss these issues, to tie all that together, and it’s not something that it needs to be through someone through my platform. Anybody can do that.

Andy Lundin:
I wanted to loop back to a separate idea, career progression, wondering how much that plays a factor into whether or not they’re trying to go into leadership roles, or they’re trying to go, for example, from going from a BMET to an imaging technician, how much does that possibly impact where people are headed in the directions and influences incoming, possibly incoming new blood or that opening up physicians in certain roles?

Chace Torres:
I would say it plays a huge factor. Now, there is a caveat. There is probably a small minority of biomeds within the field that are happy where they’re at. They could just be a tech one, tech two, just doing the job nine-to-five, calling it a day, and they’re happy. The majority of the biomed field from all of the different forms and everything I read is they want growth opportunity because what comes with growth, opportunity, benefits, salary, educational opportunities, and obviously if you’re going for a leadership/managerial role, it gives you more opportunity to do more things.

Chace Torres:
Lately, funnily enough, I was just speaking with a friend of mine, and she’s having trouble finding just anyone to apply, and this is a really good position. They can’t find anybody, but they’re looking at other avenues, other hospitals, which to possibly, I would call it “poach,” but what does that mean? That means grabbing a technician from another hospital system because they don’t have growth opportunity. A lot of these hospitals, maybe they can afford, unless you’re a flagship possible and you got a 10-to-20-deep biomed program, a lot of them maybe a few biomeds at most, and if you got one manager and they don’t have the staffing system set up to where the biomed can get promoted or go into specialty or start training to go into managerial roles, then they’re not going to stay.

Chace Torres:
Same deal with the OEM space. Like I said, the tech three is typically the one that’s running the show, the area, and managing those tech one/tech twos going out and doing the services for whatever specialty modality they have, so if you have somebody already in that role, unless that person gets trained on something more proprietary, or to elevate their resume, they’re not going anywhere, they’re going to be stagnant in that spot.

Chace Torres:
ISO company, same thing, which I’ve been in ISO my entire career. I was not going to get promoted until my manager got promoted unless I left and went somewhere else, so again, for somebody that’s a biomed that wants to grow, that wants to have more opportunities, there’s going to be a lot of movement within our career space. If that opportunity’s not made available to them. Why would you stay if you don’t have that available to you? So, absolutely, to answer your question, it plays a huge role.

Andy Lundin:
Sure. Yeah, and I hope I’m not going on too many tangents, but that’s something else popped in my head was about work culture. That seemed to be a huge point other people had brought up is, I mean, everyone, these days is talking about quiet quitting and the Great ttion and all that stuff and I’m just kind of curious to see. Every industry’s different, but it’s definitely something that seems to be taking over the nation as far as what people think about their careers, so I’m curious what that looks like, if that’s something that can be specified in terms of the HTM space as far as work culture, that sort of thing, anything like that?

Chace Torres:
I don’t think that’s really hit the biomed space. I don’t think the quiet quitting movement has really hit the biomed space. I don’t know if it ever will, just because it might be an occasional circumstance where that happens, but biomeds do the job. Obviously, we want to get paid fairly for what we do, but biomeds are very much servants to the medical system. We’re there because we get the benefit of feeling like we’ve done something special and preventing any kind of disaster that impacts patient safety and doing what we can through that medical device to elevate patient care, so I don’t want to say…

Chace Torres:
We’ve had the labor shortages and the walkouts and stuff like that with other medical professions, but I think that’s what makes the biomed space special is because I think I don’t remember what the number was from, but it was at least over 70% would recommend this job to somebody to get into this career field, so overwhelmingly, the vast majority of the biomed community loves what we do, and if they’re loving what they’re doing, if they can go into a survey and say that now, they’re more than likely happy with either their current position, their opportunities, or maybe even their leadership because leadership plays a huge impact into how we take in a job and how we feel about it, so me personally, I don’t foresee quiet quitting or that occurring within the biomed space.

Andy Lundin:
I mean, that makes sense. You’re helping people, you’re making people feel better about that well-being of others, so I think that makes sense. That sort of goes into my other question as far as, well, some of what we’ve been talking about, career paths and whatnot. I’m wondering if there are any good programs to attract early interest for the youth. I know you touched on this a little bit, getting retention, getting younger folks in the field. I’ve read about HTM in a Box, but I’m wondering if there’s other programs, other initiatives out there, anything that’s trying to move things forward in that space in that regard?

Chace Torres:
Yes, absolutely. I think by now everybody’s pretty well acquainted with HTM in a Box. It’s kind of like the mainstream approach at this point that AAMI’s rolled out. It’s been quite effective. It’s been used quite a lot from what Danielle over there has told me through what she can measure through her metrics. But there are other solutions. The biggest thing, like I said, is utilizing the community to do that outreach. What does this involve? The whole point of what HTM in a Box is to take that and go speak to the younger community, so you’re taking that, giving a presentation at a school, high school, middle school, whatever.

Chace Torres:
But there’s also the space as well for an already established adult that is maybe in a different community that is looking for a job change, which I’ve met several, and that was partially facilitated by HTM in a Box, but it was also facilitated by the Bearded Biomed Channel, the Better Biomed Channel, the HTM Insider Podcast, HTM on the Line. Engagement with the younger community doesn’t just stop with HTM in a Box, it’s actually, you go where they are. Where are they right now? They’re on TikTok, they’re on Twitter, they’re on Instagram, they’re on Discords, so that aspect of it is vital to outreaching and educating people and building awareness onto the field.

Chace Torres:
But there’s also, there’s communities or actual organizations known as, one of them, I recently interviewed Monty and Bill from the CBET School, which is College of Biomedical Equipment Technology, and they are currently working on partnering with HOSA. What HOSA is is a United States organization that directly promotes science, math, engineering, stem program, kind of education opportunities to the younger audience. I think Monty was saying they spoke to like 15,000 students in one day through the HOSA. He actually said they’re actually going to be changing their name, but as of right now, they’re still known as HOSA.

Chace Torres:
But there’s other programs out there. There’s other organizations. There’s even another one. I cannot remember the name right now. However, every state has an organization that is tied to, let’s say you have anyone from a different country coming in through STEM programs, or coming into the United States through the H1-B visa program. They actively work almost like a recruiter in a sense and job placement applicator to give them the field they want to go into. I would just encourage, if anybody wants to know about those organizations, just type in a STEM program organization within your particular state, and there’s multiple of them, there’s not just one. There’s all kinds of organizations that are doing this already for every other field.

Chace Torres:
The job now is for people such as Monty and Bill over at CBET and AAMI and myself and other people that are trying to grow the field and do outreach to the younger audience is to actively look for those organizations and to let them know that, Hey, we need your help in getting our needs facilitated because a lot of them, they just don’t know about us. I think that’s also the next step for the biomed field is doing that outreach, tapping into these other organizations that we have not built partnerships or relationships with and using them to help spread our message, which is generating multiple pipelines to different continents, different job opportunities that maybe people didn’t know about.

Andy Lundin:
Yeah, I think that’s huge. Just getting the awareness out seems to be just big, just getting in the fresh blood, new people, just awareness, I think, is huge, so I think that’s some great stuff, Chace. I really appreciate it.

Chace Torres:
Oh, yeah. I think the initiative for me is taking biomed mainstream. That could look like TV show. That could look like Sirius XM radio show. That could look like magazine publications through the big ones, Forbes, et cetera. It could be outreach through other charitable organizations. I mean, there’s different ways that we can take this to the next level, it’s just going to start with everybody doing a little bit here and there, building that awareness, building the community so we can have that voice. Once we have that voice, then we have a platform to where we can approach these organizations. It goes the same deal with Right-to-Repair. It’s started through grassroots. It’s been through a state initiative. Through there, you got Avante and FOBI Medical, Justin from Better Biomed and [inaudible 00:23:46] go and speak to Congress about Right-to-Repair. That obviously didn’t happen overnight, but something like that, it’s all about starting from somewhere and just building that platform up and up and up, and then from there, sky’s the limit.

Keri Stephens:
Well, I think this was super informative, and I know it will give Andy so much fodder for his article, so just thank you, Chace, thank you, Andy, and be on the lookout for Andy’s cover story about the topic. It will be in the September-October print issue, but because we’re digital first, y’all will see it earlier. Thank you so much, guys. Until then, be sure to check out 24×7 at www.twentyfourxsevenmag.com. Thank you. Take care. Bye, guys.